I also understand that some chassidishe and charedi communities push "smartphones" as the core defining element of Judaism. But that doesn't make it a good idea. I think the chutzpah is the central point of the story. If bochurim can't grasp the idea that their rebbeim's approach to Torah isn't universal and imagine there's no room in their Judaism for 90% of frum Jews, then things aren't healthy.
I don't know how old you are, but if bochurim would treat me that way (I'm 60+) I'd be more than shocked. Actually, when I was in Israel last year, my wife and I sometimes sat together on busses - and sometimes had our phones out - and I appreciated how even the super-charedi chassidishe bochurim on the busses invariably treated us with respect.
Well, a common chatachteristic of ALL religions is the hatred and contempt for the other abd fir independent and free thought. Judaism is no different. אתם קרואים אדם... ועל זו הדרך.
Well we *should* be different (there are plenty of sources pointing the other way). But it's downright silly (and unproductive) for such small kehilos of charedim.
The inerpretation of the Torah tradition is overwelmingly on the side of ואהבת לרעך כמוך and not on the side of חביב אדם שנברא בצלם. אזהרתו היא מיתתו אצל בני נח.
I'm not in a position to weigh sources against each other. But I do know that, with a very few short-lived exceptions thousands of years ago, we've never applied such approaches. And aggression of this sort hasn't been a part of our ethnic memory at this point for many centuries.
The example you write about is counter productive and silly, I agree. But we've seen worse: Hassidim and Misnagdim, Shabtai Zvi, Old Yishuv and New Yishuv.
Canada is going down the drain. A once decent country is destroying itself. I saw the animals who came to harass Jews outside the BAYT. Many rabbis such as Rav Teichtal taught us that the holocaust came about because Jews spurned the opportunities to return to our land! What then awaits the Jews of the exile today? I say this out of genuine concern, because most of my family is still in Canada. Apart from Chapman's ice cream, which isn't cholov yisrael, what advantages does Canada have?
That's probably a decent interpretation of the mindset behind these trends. But I still think the bans themselves are awful and unhealthy (and who wants to be unhealthy?).
I have a friend who lost his father at a very early age. Because his father had been close to R' Moshe Feinstein, R' Moshe insisted on maintaining a strong relationship with my friend. During one of their conversations, R' Moshe asked my friend (who was learning in a mesivta at the time) what his hobbies were: "every yeshiva bochur has to have at least two hobbies"). When my friend could only come up with one (stamp collecting), R' Moshe advised him to also read Alistair MacLean novels (I'll let you look those up for yourself).
When I was using my smartphone outside a shul, quite a fee bochrim walked by and tsktsked. I was shocked at their chutzpah. But I get it.
I also understand that some chassidishe and charedi communities push "smartphones" as the core defining element of Judaism. But that doesn't make it a good idea. I think the chutzpah is the central point of the story. If bochurim can't grasp the idea that their rebbeim's approach to Torah isn't universal and imagine there's no room in their Judaism for 90% of frum Jews, then things aren't healthy.
I don't know how old you are, but if bochurim would treat me that way (I'm 60+) I'd be more than shocked. Actually, when I was in Israel last year, my wife and I sometimes sat together on busses - and sometimes had our phones out - and I appreciated how even the super-charedi chassidishe bochurim on the busses invariably treated us with respect.
Well, a common chatachteristic of ALL religions is the hatred and contempt for the other abd fir independent and free thought. Judaism is no different. אתם קרואים אדם... ועל זו הדרך.
Well we *should* be different (there are plenty of sources pointing the other way). But it's downright silly (and unproductive) for such small kehilos of charedim.
The inerpretation of the Torah tradition is overwelmingly on the side of ואהבת לרעך כמוך and not on the side of חביב אדם שנברא בצלם. אזהרתו היא מיתתו אצל בני נח.
I'm not in a position to weigh sources against each other. But I do know that, with a very few short-lived exceptions thousands of years ago, we've never applied such approaches. And aggression of this sort hasn't been a part of our ethnic memory at this point for many centuries.
The example you write about is counter productive and silly, I agree. But we've seen worse: Hassidim and Misnagdim, Shabtai Zvi, Old Yishuv and New Yishuv.
You're absolutely right: such crazy parochialism does happen. But that doesn't make it any less crazy (and dangerous).
Canada is going down the drain. A once decent country is destroying itself. I saw the animals who came to harass Jews outside the BAYT. Many rabbis such as Rav Teichtal taught us that the holocaust came about because Jews spurned the opportunities to return to our land! What then awaits the Jews of the exile today? I say this out of genuine concern, because most of my family is still in Canada. Apart from Chapman's ice cream, which isn't cholov yisrael, what advantages does Canada have?
That's probably a decent interpretation of the mindset behind these trends. But I still think the bans themselves are awful and unhealthy (and who wants to be unhealthy?).
I have a friend who lost his father at a very early age. Because his father had been close to R' Moshe Feinstein, R' Moshe insisted on maintaining a strong relationship with my friend. During one of their conversations, R' Moshe asked my friend (who was learning in a mesivta at the time) what his hobbies were: "every yeshiva bochur has to have at least two hobbies"). When my friend could only come up with one (stamp collecting), R' Moshe advised him to also read Alistair MacLean novels (I'll let you look those up for yourself).
I guess that's how a godol looks at healthy life.