I also understand that some chassidishe and charedi communities push "smartphones" as the core defining element of Judaism. But that doesn't make it a good idea. I think the chutzpah is the central point of the story. If bochurim can't grasp the idea that their rebbeim's approach to Torah isn't universal and imagine there's no room in their Judaism for 90% of frum Jews, then things aren't healthy.
I don't know how old you are, but if bochurim would treat me that way (I'm 60+) I'd be more than shocked. Actually, when I was in Israel last year, my wife and I sometimes sat together on busses - and sometimes had our phones out - and I appreciated how even the super-charedi chassidishe bochurim on the busses invariably treated us with respect.
In Israel, sports is considered verboten, and regular Chareid bochurim cannot play even a game of pickup ball. Obviously, in America, even the best bochurim can play ball during teir downtime with nary a frown. I discussed this once with an American Rav in Israel who explained that Israeli cutlure is more confusing - if a bochur were to follow pro sports, then he is wathcing a Jew be mechallel Shabbos to play ball.
In short, because they are all Jews, the boundaries are blurrier, so Chareidi culture instituted much stronger ground rules. In the US, whilst we certainly don't want pro sports stars as role models, the cultures are defnied enough so that iit's not an issue. A good analofy would be bishul akum - whilst the reasoning behind it seems extraneous today, it was obviously a significant factor in seperating the cultures in Chazal's times.
I think the same cheshbon applies to smartphones. Due to their insidious nature, those communities that seek to distance themselves from them do so in a stringent manner - which would include both absolutely banning them from shuls, as well as brainwashing the youth against them.
The Chofetz Chaim shows how speaking lashon hara is just as bad (worse, in a sense) than eating treif - yet none of us would have the chutzpah to bring a McDonals' burger into a shul, and at the same time most every shul has plenty loshon hora being shmoozed - what gives? The answer is the same - trief has a stigma, LH doesn't. Halevai LH was the same as treif - it would assist us all in distancing ourselves from it.
I have nothing but praise for those communities attempting to stigmatise smartphones so severely.
That's probably a decent interpretation of the mindset behind these trends. But I still think the bans themselves are awful and unhealthy (and who wants to be unhealthy?).
I have a friend who lost his father at a very early age. Because his father had been close to R' Moshe Feinstein, R' Moshe insisted on maintaining a strong relationship with my friend. During one of their conversations, R' Moshe asked my friend (who was learning in a mesivta at the time) what his hobbies were: "every yeshiva bochur has to have at least two hobbies"). When my friend could only come up with one (stamp collecting), R' Moshe advised him to also read Alistair MacLean novels (I'll let you look those up for yourself).
'Aseh lecha Rav' doesn't require a gadol, though your friend was fortunate!
I don't think the bans are unhealthy. I once ate Friday night meal at the home of Yonatan Razel - famous for composing Shwekey's 'Vehi sheamada'. He lives in Nachlaot, five lively children, who he mentioned never ever use any devices in any capacity. They were sweet, pure neshamos. I think that those who are able to cling to that lifestyle should, and should enforce it in any way they can.
It's not for everyone. 'Im ein ani li mi li' . I wish my parents never introduced me to bad habits like drinking sweet soda, and I also wish my dad didn't have unfiltered internet in the house when I was a teen (vehamvin yavin). I wish I was brought up without smartphones at all, but I wasn't, and I recognise where I'm at (though my 20 year cheshbon hanefesh plan does include a future without any G-d willing)
Well, a common chatachteristic of ALL religions is the hatred and contempt for the other abd fir independent and free thought. Judaism is no different. אתם קרואים אדם... ועל זו הדרך.
Well we *should* be different (there are plenty of sources pointing the other way). But it's downright silly (and unproductive) for such small kehilos of charedim.
The inerpretation of the Torah tradition is overwelmingly on the side of ואהבת לרעך כמוך and not on the side of חביב אדם שנברא בצלם. אזהרתו היא מיתתו אצל בני נח.
I'm not in a position to weigh sources against each other. But I do know that, with a very few short-lived exceptions thousands of years ago, we've never applied such approaches. And aggression of this sort hasn't been a part of our ethnic memory at this point for many centuries.
The example you write about is counter productive and silly, I agree. But we've seen worse: Hassidim and Misnagdim, Shabtai Zvi, Old Yishuv and New Yishuv.
Canada is going down the drain. A once decent country is destroying itself. I saw the animals who came to harass Jews outside the BAYT. Many rabbis such as Rav Teichtal taught us that the holocaust came about because Jews spurned the opportunities to return to our land! What then awaits the Jews of the exile today? I say this out of genuine concern, because most of my family is still in Canada. Apart from Chapman's ice cream, which isn't cholov yisrael, what advantages does Canada have?
When I was using my smartphone outside a shul, quite a fee bochrim walked by and tsktsked. I was shocked at their chutzpah. But I get it.
I also understand that some chassidishe and charedi communities push "smartphones" as the core defining element of Judaism. But that doesn't make it a good idea. I think the chutzpah is the central point of the story. If bochurim can't grasp the idea that their rebbeim's approach to Torah isn't universal and imagine there's no room in their Judaism for 90% of frum Jews, then things aren't healthy.
I don't know how old you are, but if bochurim would treat me that way (I'm 60+) I'd be more than shocked. Actually, when I was in Israel last year, my wife and I sometimes sat together on busses - and sometimes had our phones out - and I appreciated how even the super-charedi chassidishe bochurim on the busses invariably treated us with respect.
In Israel, sports is considered verboten, and regular Chareid bochurim cannot play even a game of pickup ball. Obviously, in America, even the best bochurim can play ball during teir downtime with nary a frown. I discussed this once with an American Rav in Israel who explained that Israeli cutlure is more confusing - if a bochur were to follow pro sports, then he is wathcing a Jew be mechallel Shabbos to play ball.
In short, because they are all Jews, the boundaries are blurrier, so Chareidi culture instituted much stronger ground rules. In the US, whilst we certainly don't want pro sports stars as role models, the cultures are defnied enough so that iit's not an issue. A good analofy would be bishul akum - whilst the reasoning behind it seems extraneous today, it was obviously a significant factor in seperating the cultures in Chazal's times.
I think the same cheshbon applies to smartphones. Due to their insidious nature, those communities that seek to distance themselves from them do so in a stringent manner - which would include both absolutely banning them from shuls, as well as brainwashing the youth against them.
The Chofetz Chaim shows how speaking lashon hara is just as bad (worse, in a sense) than eating treif - yet none of us would have the chutzpah to bring a McDonals' burger into a shul, and at the same time most every shul has plenty loshon hora being shmoozed - what gives? The answer is the same - trief has a stigma, LH doesn't. Halevai LH was the same as treif - it would assist us all in distancing ourselves from it.
I have nothing but praise for those communities attempting to stigmatise smartphones so severely.
That's probably a decent interpretation of the mindset behind these trends. But I still think the bans themselves are awful and unhealthy (and who wants to be unhealthy?).
I have a friend who lost his father at a very early age. Because his father had been close to R' Moshe Feinstein, R' Moshe insisted on maintaining a strong relationship with my friend. During one of their conversations, R' Moshe asked my friend (who was learning in a mesivta at the time) what his hobbies were: "every yeshiva bochur has to have at least two hobbies"). When my friend could only come up with one (stamp collecting), R' Moshe advised him to also read Alistair MacLean novels (I'll let you look those up for yourself).
I guess that's how a godol looks at healthy life.
I've read MacLean, they're excellent!
'Aseh lecha Rav' doesn't require a gadol, though your friend was fortunate!
I don't think the bans are unhealthy. I once ate Friday night meal at the home of Yonatan Razel - famous for composing Shwekey's 'Vehi sheamada'. He lives in Nachlaot, five lively children, who he mentioned never ever use any devices in any capacity. They were sweet, pure neshamos. I think that those who are able to cling to that lifestyle should, and should enforce it in any way they can.
It's not for everyone. 'Im ein ani li mi li' . I wish my parents never introduced me to bad habits like drinking sweet soda, and I also wish my dad didn't have unfiltered internet in the house when I was a teen (vehamvin yavin). I wish I was brought up without smartphones at all, but I wasn't, and I recognise where I'm at (though my 20 year cheshbon hanefesh plan does include a future without any G-d willing)
Well, a common chatachteristic of ALL religions is the hatred and contempt for the other abd fir independent and free thought. Judaism is no different. אתם קרואים אדם... ועל זו הדרך.
Well we *should* be different (there are plenty of sources pointing the other way). But it's downright silly (and unproductive) for such small kehilos of charedim.
The inerpretation of the Torah tradition is overwelmingly on the side of ואהבת לרעך כמוך and not on the side of חביב אדם שנברא בצלם. אזהרתו היא מיתתו אצל בני נח.
I'm not in a position to weigh sources against each other. But I do know that, with a very few short-lived exceptions thousands of years ago, we've never applied such approaches. And aggression of this sort hasn't been a part of our ethnic memory at this point for many centuries.
The example you write about is counter productive and silly, I agree. But we've seen worse: Hassidim and Misnagdim, Shabtai Zvi, Old Yishuv and New Yishuv.
You're absolutely right: such crazy parochialism does happen. But that doesn't make it any less crazy (and dangerous).
Canada is going down the drain. A once decent country is destroying itself. I saw the animals who came to harass Jews outside the BAYT. Many rabbis such as Rav Teichtal taught us that the holocaust came about because Jews spurned the opportunities to return to our land! What then awaits the Jews of the exile today? I say this out of genuine concern, because most of my family is still in Canada. Apart from Chapman's ice cream, which isn't cholov yisrael, what advantages does Canada have?