Excellent piece. The following emotional rant won't make me popular, but here goes...those protests are a giant chillul Hashem. They look terrible. The message is one of extreme entitlement, and reaffirms the ugly stereotype that Jews have no loyalty to whichever country in which we live, leading goyim to conclude that's the reason no one likes us. We're now giving those haters the ultimate validation to that narrative, that we can't even show loyalty when given our own country. We will take take take from the country, by receiving state benefits (healthcare, infrastructure, security, and stipends) all of which implies a reciprocal obligation to defend that state. Instead, we selfishly refuse to share in that burden of fighting with those from which we take. It's actually disgusting behavior, inexcusable, and indefensible.
I say the same thing in any country, whether it's the US or Canada, if you refuse to fight for it, leave. We aren't in Soviet Union. You're free to go live in other countries that share your values and won't force you to fight for them. You can continue to pretend we're still living under the Czar, where we did our own thing and never fought for the Czar. In other words, you can continue to run your little game of take take take while refusing to fight for the very same country that provides you the right to take take take. Until you leave, stop kvetching and shut up. You sound like a spoiled whiney little girl.
I'm not saying every Jew must enlist in a military, but when your country faces existential crisis, and your neighbors risk their lives to save you, and they ask you to join, it's a chutzpah to say "no, I'm good. I got my gemarah, I'll sit it out." Really? ״האחיכם יבאו למלחמה ואתם תשבו פה?״
(Bamidbar 32:6). I don't care if your complex Talmudic gymnastics can dismiss that warning. You may convince yourselves that you are David HaMelech winning the war by shtieging away, but that's not at all how it looks when hundreds of thousands of little King Davids refuse to serve.
Look, if you refuse to fight, instead of making a giant chilul Hashem in the streets, find your manhood, move to the US, and learn all the Torah you wish. Ah, you can't move to the US because its government won't pay you to sit in kollel all day? Kal v'chomer! Entitlement x2000!
Won't disagreethough there is a surplus amount of anarchism channeled into the protests. All the protestors should be sent to out to some foreign country for the betterment of all.
As if the marionettists of Israel would allow it to happen.
just today i read they attacked the light-rail construction in Jerusalem. i heard they basically gave on that whole line because of repeated attacks.
I've always been a proponent of exempting שבט לוי from army service which might be close to Eisenkot 3% exemption. actually i dont believe in any forced induction but thats a different story
That's possible. I have zero reliable inside information on that one way or the other. However, I have seen videos of multiple groups each involving hundreds of participants. So the size of those fringe groups doesn't look all that "fringe-y".
There's also the iceberg theory: if hundreds of people do something dangerous, there's a good chance that there are many thousands of others who would love to do it too, but don't have the guts.
It would be nice to have data on whether any or all of the criminals have been thrown out of their yeshivos.
Wow, Rabbi Clinton. It seems like only yesterday I read your copy of Approaching Infinity from R. Shlomo of Chelm, having seen it in front of you during davening. But actually it was 37 years ago. (See, now *that's* Relativity.)
Without expressing an opinion myself on this most contentious issue, I would note that you cannot fairly post about protests, even citing R. Amram Blau, without addressing the lessons of just this past week's parsha and the ancient rule of קנאים פוגעין בו. You might also address the success of the old ככר שבת riots, rock throwing and all, in stopping cars from driving through Mea Sheraim on shabbos. (And I wont even mention Union violence, bc we're speaking of Jews here.) These situations might be analogous to the draft issue, they might not. But to not address these precedents is to ignore the elephant in the room.
The Steipler said after he was interrogated during Eipho yossele saga: this place operates the precisely like Soviet Union. He had previously served in the Red army!
Excellent piece. The following emotional rant won't make me popular, but here goes...those protests are a giant chillul Hashem. They look terrible. The message is one of extreme entitlement, and reaffirms the ugly stereotype that Jews have no loyalty to whichever country in which we live, leading goyim to conclude that's the reason no one likes us. We're now giving those haters the ultimate validation to that narrative, that we can't even show loyalty when given our own country. We will take take take from the country, by receiving state benefits (healthcare, infrastructure, security, and stipends) all of which implies a reciprocal obligation to defend that state. Instead, we selfishly refuse to share in that burden of fighting with those from which we take. It's actually disgusting behavior, inexcusable, and indefensible.
I say the same thing in any country, whether it's the US or Canada, if you refuse to fight for it, leave. We aren't in Soviet Union. You're free to go live in other countries that share your values and won't force you to fight for them. You can continue to pretend we're still living under the Czar, where we did our own thing and never fought for the Czar. In other words, you can continue to run your little game of take take take while refusing to fight for the very same country that provides you the right to take take take. Until you leave, stop kvetching and shut up. You sound like a spoiled whiney little girl.
I'm not saying every Jew must enlist in a military, but when your country faces existential crisis, and your neighbors risk their lives to save you, and they ask you to join, it's a chutzpah to say "no, I'm good. I got my gemarah, I'll sit it out." Really? ״האחיכם יבאו למלחמה ואתם תשבו פה?״
(Bamidbar 32:6). I don't care if your complex Talmudic gymnastics can dismiss that warning. You may convince yourselves that you are David HaMelech winning the war by shtieging away, but that's not at all how it looks when hundreds of thousands of little King Davids refuse to serve.
Look, if you refuse to fight, instead of making a giant chilul Hashem in the streets, find your manhood, move to the US, and learn all the Torah you wish. Ah, you can't move to the US because its government won't pay you to sit in kollel all day? Kal v'chomer! Entitlement x2000!
Putting aside the impact of all childish counterproductive protests/communal exercise groups-which these invariably are-
a.Many would be happy to leave,but essentially aren't really allowed to go.
b.Others would claim they/their demographic were here first. let the johnny come lately anti-charedim go.
c. Others would likely argue like GB Shaw, when asked how come he wouldn't abandon Britain for some socialist regime:"It is hell, but it is my hell"
"We aren't the Soviet Union"
This is your ilks' [naive?] slant. Others will respond: We aren't??Debatable. We are-in essentials. & they're being refuseniks.
Be that as it may,
Won't disagreethough there is a surplus amount of anarchism channeled into the protests. All the protestors should be sent to out to some foreign country for the betterment of all.
As if the marionettists of Israel would allow it to happen.
just today i read they attacked the light-rail construction in Jerusalem. i heard they basically gave on that whole line because of repeated attacks.
I've always been a proponent of exempting שבט לוי from army service which might be close to Eisenkot 3% exemption. actually i dont believe in any forced induction but thats a different story
Just to be clear, as far as I understand almost all the protests are a fringe group (Eitz, Peleg, or even a fringe group within that)
That's possible. I have zero reliable inside information on that one way or the other. However, I have seen videos of multiple groups each involving hundreds of participants. So the size of those fringe groups doesn't look all that "fringe-y".
There's also the iceberg theory: if hundreds of people do something dangerous, there's a good chance that there are many thousands of others who would love to do it too, but don't have the guts.
It would be nice to have data on whether any or all of the criminals have been thrown out of their yeshivos.
I follow even less than you. Do you know that these 'multiple groups' are really separate? They operate at the same time? Anyway, if you read my comments on this piece https://tautsofer.substack.com/p/missing-the-forest-for-the-trees e.g. this https://tautsofer.substack.com/p/missing-the-forest-for-the-trees/comment/280310670 you will see that we are pretty much on the same page here
Wow, Rabbi Clinton. It seems like only yesterday I read your copy of Approaching Infinity from R. Shlomo of Chelm, having seen it in front of you during davening. But actually it was 37 years ago. (See, now *that's* Relativity.)
Without expressing an opinion myself on this most contentious issue, I would note that you cannot fairly post about protests, even citing R. Amram Blau, without addressing the lessons of just this past week's parsha and the ancient rule of קנאים פוגעין בו. You might also address the success of the old ככר שבת riots, rock throwing and all, in stopping cars from driving through Mea Sheraim on shabbos. (And I wont even mention Union violence, bc we're speaking of Jews here.) These situations might be analogous to the draft issue, they might not. But to not address these precedents is to ignore the elephant in the room.
I call it terrorism. https://daastorah.substack.com/p/on-giving-in-to-terrorists-iran-and?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android&r=33pit
btw
The Steipler said after he was interrogated during Eipho yossele saga: this place operates the precisely like Soviet Union. He had previously served in the Red army!
i found an interesting approach to from the rosh yeshiva of sheppels.
the big heredi demonstrations were clandestinely funded by the left to take down bibi
https://podcasts.apple.com/lb/podcast/the-chareidi-draft-debate-is-common-ground-possible/id1289716034?i=1000773654487
You're surprised?? Old stuff.
Been insinuating thus for months!
Reportedly discovered a couple decades ago any charedi could sign up to be employed at the behest of Shabak for minimum 3000 shekel/monthly