What I like about you, Rabbi Clinton, is that we really seem to worry about the same things. Are Cohanim supposed to have buzz cuts? Does anybody not in aveilus have a responsibility to get a haircut and trim their beard every month?
The Sefer Hachinuch (252) and Maaseh Rokeach (and others) to Hilchos Avodah Zarah 12:7 interpret the Rambam to forbid trimming the beard at all, even though one is only liable to lashes for using a razor, but the Beis Yosef (Yoreh Deah 181) rejects this interpretation.
For a source to differentiate between the scalp and the beard, here's a teshuvas Rashba (1:407) about a Nazir
Excellent sources. Although I'm not sure I understand the Rashba's proof: after all we're talking about a katan who, by definition, doesn't have beard hairs. Would shaving a chin with no hair still be a d'oraissa? Also, I'm not sure that what Rashba says in the context of nazirus would necessarily apply here. (Although I will note that my youngest son just asked R' Yitzchak Berkowitz from NIRC about this, and he quoted the same Rashba.)
Very interesting source. Although we'd have to square it with the implied message of Vayikra 10:6 about mourning and *not* shaving. Although perhaps the difference is that *pulling* hair out is normal for mourners, but shaving (or trimming) isn't.
Probably not, because the pasuk he brings there is מגלחי זקן וקרועי בגדים. Do we know that ראשו in Vayikra 10:6 refers to the beard also? If so we would have to say that mourning practices changed between Sinai and centuries later.
What bemuses me is the yeshivish minhag of growing the hair above the ears long and behind ears, yet trimming the 'sideburns' nice square and neat. What is the difference between the two areas of hair?
Tamanim learn Sanhedrin 22b differently. Yechezkel was a kohen. In 8:3 he writes ציצית ראשי. Tzitzit are long tassels, long payot much longer than 30 days of growth. In 44:20 refers to the rest of the hair on his head. Sanhedrin isn't discussing payot, only the non-payot hair. Tamanim had mesorah of long payot, which includes many kohanim that according to tradition, moved to Yemen perhaps right after 1st churban. Some of that tradition is recorded in Tamani sfarim which you may wish to read. Although those sfarim might be more recent, the mesorah itself predates "kabbalistic Torah sources".
There were nezirim throughout the times of the first and second Batei Mikdash. We don't know of other prominent ones, besides maybe Shmuel. There can be no nezirus without a Beis Hamikdash, so we haven't had any in 1955 years.
Samson's nazirut only followed in the shitshow that was post-Joshua. From the same story we have the literal pasuk "every man did what was right in his eyes". That says a lot. Worth noting is that preceding him were Ehud (Left-handed), Deborah(Woman), Yiftah(illegitimate son). Maybe it "got so bad" that a nazir needed to be sent as an example, but because of the follies of said nazir, it ends with introducing Eli and the decline of the priesthood (who would've been leadership figures). It's clearly a commentary on how failed the leadership was up til David, which were brief victories followed by post-Davidic(post-Solomonic?) follies in leadership.
What I like about you, Rabbi Clinton, is that we really seem to worry about the same things. Are Cohanim supposed to have buzz cuts? Does anybody not in aveilus have a responsibility to get a haircut and trim their beard every month?
The Sefer Hachinuch (252) and Maaseh Rokeach (and others) to Hilchos Avodah Zarah 12:7 interpret the Rambam to forbid trimming the beard at all, even though one is only liable to lashes for using a razor, but the Beis Yosef (Yoreh Deah 181) rejects this interpretation.
For a source to differentiate between the scalp and the beard, here's a teshuvas Rashba (1:407) about a Nazir
https://hebrewbooks.org/pdfpager.aspx?req=1376&pgnum=169
Excellent sources. Although I'm not sure I understand the Rashba's proof: after all we're talking about a katan who, by definition, doesn't have beard hairs. Would shaving a chin with no hair still be a d'oraissa? Also, I'm not sure that what Rashba says in the context of nazirus would necessarily apply here. (Although I will note that my youngest son just asked R' Yitzchak Berkowitz from NIRC about this, and he quoted the same Rashba.)
Radak says long beard is תפארת פנים and the minhag was for mourners to shave
https://www.sefaria.org/Radak_on_Isaiah.15.2.3?lang=bi&with=Tanakh
Very interesting source. Although we'd have to square it with the implied message of Vayikra 10:6 about mourning and *not* shaving. Although perhaps the difference is that *pulling* hair out is normal for mourners, but shaving (or trimming) isn't.
Probably not, because the pasuk he brings there is מגלחי זקן וקרועי בגדים. Do we know that ראשו in Vayikra 10:6 refers to the beard also? If so we would have to say that mourning practices changed between Sinai and centuries later.
Careful when using sefaria
caveat emptor
I don't know much about payos.
Or "payes" -- as it is often pronounced and spelled.
But I do know that "pay us" is a time-honored Jewish principle.
What bemuses me is the yeshivish minhag of growing the hair above the ears long and behind ears, yet trimming the 'sideburns' nice square and neat. What is the difference between the two areas of hair?
https://edwardnathanschwarz.substack.com/p/geraldo-rivera-finally-finds-al-capones?r=5e930t
Tamanim learn Sanhedrin 22b differently. Yechezkel was a kohen. In 8:3 he writes ציצית ראשי. Tzitzit are long tassels, long payot much longer than 30 days of growth. In 44:20 refers to the rest of the hair on his head. Sanhedrin isn't discussing payot, only the non-payot hair. Tamanim had mesorah of long payot, which includes many kohanim that according to tradition, moved to Yemen perhaps right after 1st churban. Some of that tradition is recorded in Tamani sfarim which you may wish to read. Although those sfarim might be more recent, the mesorah itself predates "kabbalistic Torah sources".
What a curious conundrum🤷
Besides the rabbi in Toronto who else has noted it being an enigma of irony?
When was the last noted long haired sober righteous Nazirite besides Samson?
was there an event / teaching that changed the acceptability of them?
There were nezirim throughout the times of the first and second Batei Mikdash. We don't know of other prominent ones, besides maybe Shmuel. There can be no nezirus without a Beis Hamikdash, so we haven't had any in 1955 years.
I take it you've never heard of Rav Dovid Cohen, "The Nazir", right hand man to Rav Kook and father in law to Rav Shlomo Goren.
Samson's nazirut only followed in the shitshow that was post-Joshua. From the same story we have the literal pasuk "every man did what was right in his eyes". That says a lot. Worth noting is that preceding him were Ehud (Left-handed), Deborah(Woman), Yiftah(illegitimate son). Maybe it "got so bad" that a nazir needed to be sent as an example, but because of the follies of said nazir, it ends with introducing Eli and the decline of the priesthood (who would've been leadership figures). It's clearly a commentary on how failed the leadership was up til David, which were brief victories followed by post-Davidic(post-Solomonic?) follies in leadership.